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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Major bug found in Moses (Lane Schwartz)
2. Re: Major bug found in Moses (Read, James C)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 11:58:27 -0500
From: Lane Schwartz <dowobeha@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Major bug found in Moses
To: "Read, James C" <jcread@essex.ac.uk>
Cc: "moses-support@mit.edu" <moses-support@mit.edu>, "Arnold, Doug"
<doug@essex.ac.uk>
Message-ID:
<CABv3vZmCbLEp_zPMNG-2rKpkUT7h8-d_WJP+2jfDYwaRYehq6A@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
James,
Did you run any optimizer? MERT, MIRA, PRO, etc?
Lane
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Read, James C <jcread@essex.ac.uk> wrote:
> Doesn't look like the LM is contributing all that much then does it?
>
> James
>
> ________________________________________
> From: moses-support-bounces@mit.edu <moses-support-bounces@mit.edu> on
> behalf of Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 7:35 PM
> To: Kenneth Heafield; moses-support@mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Major bug found in Moses
>
> On 17/06/2015 20:13, Kenneth Heafield wrote:
> > I'll bite.
> >
> > The moses.ini files ship with bogus feature weights. One is required to
> > tune the system to discover good weights for their system. You did not
> > tune. The results of an untuned system are meaningless.
> >
> > So for example if the feature weights are all zeros, then the scores are
> > all zero. The system will arbitrarily pick some awful translation from
> > a large space of translations.
> >
> > The filter looks at one feature p(target | source). So now you've
> > constrained the awful untuned model to a slightly better region of the
> > search space.
> >
> > In other words, all you've done is a poor approximation to manually
> > setting the weight to 1.0 on p(target | source) and the rest to 0.
> >
> > The problem isn't that you are running without a language model (though
> > we generally do not care what happens without one). The problem is that
> > you did not tune the feature weights.
> >
> > Moreover, as Marcin is pointing out, I wouldn't necessarily expect
> > tuning to work without an LM.
> Tuning does work without a LM. The results aren't half bad. fr-en
> europarl (pb):
> with LM: 22.84
> retuned without LM: 18.33
> >
> > On 06/17/15 11:56, Read, James C wrote:
> >> Actually the approximation I expect to be:
> >>
> >> p(e|f)=p(f|e)
> >>
> >> Why would you expect this to give poor results if the TM is well
> trained? Surely the results of my filtering experiments provve otherwise.
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> ________________________________________
> >> From: moses-support-bounces@mit.edu <moses-support-bounces@mit.edu> on
> behalf of Rico Sennrich <rico.sennrich@gmx.ch>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:32 PM
> >> To: moses-support@mit.edu
> >> Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Major bug found in Moses
> >>
> >> Read, James C <jcread@...> writes:
> >>
> >>> I have been unable to find a logical explanation for this behaviour
> other
> >> than to conclude that there must be some kind of bug in Moses which
> causes a
> >> TM only run of Moses to perform poorly in finding the most likely
> >> translations according to the TM when
> >>> there are less likely phrase pairs included in the race.
> >> I may have overlooked something, but you seem to have removed the
> language
> >> model from your config, and used default weights. your default model
> will
> >> thus (roughly) implement the following model:
> >>
> >> p(e|f) = p(e|f)*p(f|e)
> >>
> >> which is obviously wrong, and will give you poor results. This is not a
> bug
> >> in the code, but a poor choice of models and weights. Standard steps in
> SMT
> >> (like tuning the model weights on a development set, and including a
> >> language model) will give you the desired results.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Moses-support mailing list
> >> Moses-support@mit.edu
> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Moses-support mailing list
> >> Moses-support@mit.edu
> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
> > _______________________________________________
> > Moses-support mailing list
> > Moses-support@mit.edu
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
> >
>
> --
> Hieu Hoang
> Researcher
> New York University, Abu Dhabi
> http://www.hoang.co.uk/hieu
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
--
When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not
far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel
is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.
-- R.A. Heinlein, "Time Enough For Love"
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 17:06:12 +0000
From: "Read, James C" <jcread@essex.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Major bug found in Moses
To: Lane Schwartz <dowobeha@gmail.com>
Cc: "moses-support@mit.edu" <moses-support@mit.edu>, "Arnold, Doug"
<doug@essex.ac.uk>
Message-ID:
<DB3PR06MB0713E0D23D08FD2BF5E89C5285A60@DB3PR06MB0713.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
No.
James
________________________________
From: Lane Schwartz <dowobeha@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 7:58 PM
To: Read, James C
Cc: Hieu Hoang; Kenneth Heafield; moses-support@mit.edu; Arnold, Doug
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Major bug found in Moses
James,
Did you run any optimizer? MERT, MIRA, PRO, etc?
Lane
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Read, James C <jcread@essex.ac.uk<mailto:jcread@essex.ac.uk>> wrote:
Doesn't look like the LM is contributing all that much then does it?
James
________________________________________
From: moses-support-bounces@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support-bounces@mit.edu> <moses-support-bounces@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support-bounces@mit.edu>> on behalf of Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com<mailto:hieuhoang@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 7:35 PM
To: Kenneth Heafield; moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Major bug found in Moses
On 17/06/2015 20:13, Kenneth Heafield wrote:
> I'll bite.
>
> The moses.ini files ship with bogus feature weights. One is required to
> tune the system to discover good weights for their system. You did not
> tune. The results of an untuned system are meaningless.
>
> So for example if the feature weights are all zeros, then the scores are
> all zero. The system will arbitrarily pick some awful translation from
> a large space of translations.
>
> The filter looks at one feature p(target | source). So now you've
> constrained the awful untuned model to a slightly better region of the
> search space.
>
> In other words, all you've done is a poor approximation to manually
> setting the weight to 1.0 on p(target | source) and the rest to 0.
>
> The problem isn't that you are running without a language model (though
> we generally do not care what happens without one). The problem is that
> you did not tune the feature weights.
>
> Moreover, as Marcin is pointing out, I wouldn't necessarily expect
> tuning to work without an LM.
Tuning does work without a LM. The results aren't half bad. fr-en
europarl (pb):
with LM: 22.84
retuned without LM: 18.33
>
> On 06/17/15 11:56, Read, James C wrote:
>> Actually the approximation I expect to be:
>>
>> p(e|f)=p(f|e)
>>
>> Why would you expect this to give poor results if the TM is well trained? Surely the results of my filtering experiments provve otherwise.
>>
>> James
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: moses-support-bounces@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support-bounces@mit.edu> <moses-support-bounces@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support-bounces@mit.edu>> on behalf of Rico Sennrich <rico.sennrich@gmx.ch<mailto:rico.sennrich@gmx.ch>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:32 PM
>> To: moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support@mit.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Major bug found in Moses
>>
>> Read, James C <jcread@...> writes:
>>
>>> I have been unable to find a logical explanation for this behaviour other
>> than to conclude that there must be some kind of bug in Moses which causes a
>> TM only run of Moses to perform poorly in finding the most likely
>> translations according to the TM when
>>> there are less likely phrase pairs included in the race.
>> I may have overlooked something, but you seem to have removed the language
>> model from your config, and used default weights. your default model will
>> thus (roughly) implement the following model:
>>
>> p(e|f) = p(e|f)*p(f|e)
>>
>> which is obviously wrong, and will give you poor results. This is not a bug
>> in the code, but a poor choice of models and weights. Standard steps in SMT
>> (like tuning the model weights on a development set, and including a
>> language model) will give you the desired results.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moses-support mailing list
>> Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moses-support mailing list
>> Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
--
Hieu Hoang
Researcher
New York University, Abu Dhabi
http://www.hoang.co.uk/hieu
_______________________________________________
Moses-support mailing list
Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
_______________________________________________
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Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
--
When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not
far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel
is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.
-- R.A. Heinlein, "Time Enough For Love"
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End of Moses-support Digest, Vol 104, Issue 35
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