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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses (Lane Schwartz)
2. Re: Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses (Kenneth Heafield)
3. Re: Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses (Matt Post)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 13:03:29 -0500
From: Lane Schwartz <dowobeha@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
To: Tom Hoar <tahoar@slate.rocks>
Cc: moses-support <moses-support@mit.edu>
Message-ID:
<CABv3vZmm-kGA5OHPoM8jGcfySrh6GBfo9rxdxSu2K8zjXyYqPw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Tom,
Moses is licensed under LGPL. But if the contributors agree, there's no
reason that the tokenizer script can't also be simultaneously licensed
under Apache.
Most open source projects only have a single license, but there are
certainly cases where code is distributed under more than one license.
Lane
On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:27 AM, Tom Hoar <tahoar@slate.rocks> wrote:
> Hi Liling,
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "dual licensing or re-license." Software is
> published under one license, which may or may not be compatible with other
> licenses. The Moses trunk is licensed under LGPL2.1, except those modules
> specifically republished under their respective licenses. My copy of
> tokenizer.perl script shows it's LGPL2.1. Under those terms, any changes to
> its code, if published, must be published under LGPL2.1 or newer. It looks
> to me like you've done that.
>
> You might have problems including a Python version of tokenizer.perl in
> NLTK because NLTK is licensed under the incompatible Apache License Version
> 2.0, at least according to this site, https://www.quora.com/What-
> are-the-major-differences-between-GNU-LGPL-v3-and-v2-1.
>
> The source code's copyright IPR is the property of the University of
> Edinburgh. It's polite to track down the authors/contributors, but it's not
> necessary. The University's legal/intellectual property department is the
> authority and best source of information about licensing.
>
> Tom
>
>
> On 5/29/2018 9:53 PM, moses-support-request@mit.edu wrote:
>
> Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 09:53:03 -0500
> From: Lane Schwartz <dowobeha@gmail.com> <dowobeha@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
> To: liling tan <alvations@gmail.com> <alvations@gmail.com>
> Cc: moses-support <moses-support@mit.edu> <moses-support@mit.edu>
>
> Matt,
>
> Did you ever track down the people who contributed to the tokenizer? It
> seems like we should be able to dual license that script. It would be very
> nice to be able to include the Moses tokenizer and detokenizer as part of
> NLTK.
>
> Lane
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:38 AM, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com> <alvations@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Moses Devs and Community,
>
> Sorry for the delayed response.
>
> We've repackaged the MosesTokenizer Python code as a library and made it
> pip-able.https://github.com/alvations/sacremoses
>
> I hope that's okay with the Moses community and the license compliance is
> good with this now.
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
>
--
When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not
far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel
is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.
-- R.A. Heinlein, "Time Enough For Love"
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 11:18:51 -0700
From: Kenneth Heafield <moses@kheafield.com>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
To: moses-support@mit.edu
Message-ID: <09eab323-3e69-b5b7-659d-546e78828899@kheafield.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi,
??? Just to clarify that employees of the University of Edinburgh would
technically go to the university while PhD students keep the code they
write.? Our IP people won't mind if we authors choose to allow another
license.?
Kenneth
On 05/29/2018 11:03 AM, Lane Schwartz wrote:
> The source code's copyright IPR is the property of the University of
> Edinburgh. It's polite to track down the authors/contributors, but
> it's not necessary. The University's legal/intellectual property
> department is the authority and best source of information about
> licensing.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 21:00:27 +0200
From: Matt Post <post@cs.jhu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
To: Lane Schwartz <dowobeha@gmail.com>
Cc: moses-support <moses-support@mit.edu>, liling tan
<alvations@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6D1EF93B-165C-40D4-ACE5-6ABEB74C3CB4@cs.jhu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Lane,
I'm not really involved with Moses or NLTK and never meant to take that on personally. However, it still seems to me like a reasonable and achievable goal.
matt
> On May 29, 2018, at 4:53 PM, Lane Schwartz <dowobeha@gmail.com <mailto:dowobeha@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> Did you ever track down the people who contributed to the tokenizer? It seems like we should be able to dual license that script. It would be very nice to be able to include the Moses tokenizer and detokenizer as part of NLTK.
>
> Lane
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:38 AM, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear Moses Devs and Community,
>
> Sorry for the delayed response.
>
> We've repackaged the MosesTokenizer Python code as a library and made it pip-able.
> https://github.com/alvations/sacremoses <https://github.com/alvations/sacremoses>
>
> I hope that's okay with the Moses community and the license compliance is good with this now.
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 1:41 AM, Matt Post <post@cs.jhu.edu <mailto:post@cs.jhu.edu>> wrote:
> Seems worth a shot. I suggest contacting each of them with individual emails until (and if) you get a ?no?.
>
> matt (from my phone)
>
> Le 10 avr. 2018 ? 19:26, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> a ?crit :
>
>> @Matt I'm not sure whether that'll work.
>>
>>
>> For tokenizer, that'll include:
>>
>> phikoehn <https://github.com/phikoehn>
>> hieuhoang <https://github.com/hieuhoang>
>> bhaddow <https://github.com/bhaddow>
>> jimregan <https://github.com/jimregan>
>> kpu <https://github.com/kpu>
>> ugermann <https://github.com/ugermann>
>> pjwilliams <https://github.com/pjwilliams>
>> jgwinnup <https://github.com/jgwinnup>
>> mhuck <https://github.com/mhuck>
>> tofula <https://github.com/tofula>
>> a455bcd9 <https://github.com/a455bcd9>
>>
>> And these for the detokenizer:
>>
>>
>> phikoehn <https://github.com/phikoehn>
>> flammie <https://github.com/flammie>
>> hieuhoang <https://github.com/hieuhoang>
>> pjwilliams <https://github.com/pjwilliams>
>> bhaddow <https://github.com/bhaddow>
>> alvations <https://github.com/alvations>
>>
>> Not sure if everyone agrees though.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:39 AM, Matt Post <post@cs.jhu.edu <mailto:post@cs.jhu.edu>> wrote:
>> Liling?Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are in the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?
>>
>> matt (from my phone)
>>
>> Le 10 avr. 2018 ? 18:19, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> a ?crit :
>>
>>> Got it.
>>>
>>> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer
>>>
>>> Thank you for the clarification!
>>> Liling
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com <mailto:hieuhoang@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's permission, not just mine. So no
>>>
>>> Hieu Hoang
>>> http://moses-smt.org/ <http://moses-smt.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> I understand.
>>>
>>> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an MIT/Apache tool?
>>>
>>> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having mutual agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of LGPL work until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's safe to back off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com <mailto:hieuhoang@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement of everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work
>>>
>>> Hieu Hoang
>>> http://moses-smt.org/ <http://moses-smt.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>>
>>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>>>
>>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues. https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000 <https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000>
>>>
>>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>>>
>>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of our models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is in LGPL).
>>>
>>> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to have dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might have to check with some proper legal personnel though.
>>>
>>> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the code under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for derivatiive work?
>>>
>>> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove the synergy between various OSS.
>>>
>>> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moses-support mailing list
>>> Moses-support@mit.edu <mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moses-support mailing list
>>> Moses-support@mit.edu <mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support>
>>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 1:41 AM, Matt Post <post@cs.jhu.edu <mailto:post@cs.jhu.edu>> wrote:
> Seems worth a shot. I suggest contacting each of them with individual emails until (and if) you get a ?no?.
>
> matt (from my phone)
>
> Le 10 avr. 2018 ? 19:26, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> a ?crit :
>
>> @Matt I'm not sure whether that'll work.
>>
>>
>> For tokenizer, that'll include:
>>
>> phikoehn <https://github.com/phikoehn>
>> hieuhoang <https://github.com/hieuhoang>
>> bhaddow <https://github.com/bhaddow>
>> jimregan <https://github.com/jimregan>
>> kpu <https://github.com/kpu>
>> ugermann <https://github.com/ugermann>
>> pjwilliams <https://github.com/pjwilliams>
>> jgwinnup <https://github.com/jgwinnup>
>> mhuck <https://github.com/mhuck>
>> tofula <https://github.com/tofula>
>> a455bcd9 <https://github.com/a455bcd9>
>>
>> And these for the detokenizer:
>>
>>
>> phikoehn <https://github.com/phikoehn>
>> flammie <https://github.com/flammie>
>> hieuhoang <https://github.com/hieuhoang>
>> pjwilliams <https://github.com/pjwilliams>
>> bhaddow <https://github.com/bhaddow>
>> alvations <https://github.com/alvations>
>>
>> Not sure if everyone agrees though.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:39 AM, Matt Post <post@cs.jhu.edu <mailto:post@cs.jhu.edu>> wrote:
>> Liling?Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are in the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?
>>
>> matt (from my phone)
>>
>> Le 10 avr. 2018 ? 18:19, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> a ?crit :
>>
>>> Got it.
>>>
>>> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer
>>>
>>> Thank you for the clarification!
>>> Liling
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com <mailto:hieuhoang@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's permission, not just mine. So no
>>>
>>> Hieu Hoang
>>> http://moses-smt.org/ <http://moses-smt.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> I understand.
>>>
>>> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an MIT/Apache tool?
>>>
>>> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having mutual agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of LGPL work until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's safe to back off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com <mailto:hieuhoang@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement of everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work
>>>
>>> Hieu Hoang
>>> http://moses-smt.org/ <http://moses-smt.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>>
>>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>>>
>>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues. https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000 <https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000>
>>>
>>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>>>
>>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of our models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is in LGPL).
>>>
>>> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to have dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might have to check with some proper legal personnel though.
>>>
>>> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the code under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for derivatiive work?
>>>
>>> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove the synergy between various OSS.
>>>
>>> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moses-support mailing list
>>> Moses-support@mit.edu <mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moses-support mailing list
>>> Moses-support@mit.edu <mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu <mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support>
>
>
>
>
> --
> When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not
> far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel
> is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.
> -- R.A. Heinlein, "Time Enough For Love"
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