Moses-support Digest, Vol 138, Issue 5

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses (Hieu Hoang)
2. Re: Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses (liling tan)
3. Re: Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses (Hieu Hoang)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:09:21 +0100
From: Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
To: liling tan <alvations@gmail.com>
Cc: moses-support <moses-support@mit.edu>
Message-ID:
<CAEKMkbh_2jLzHWpGw7FPCGu2=hA++zUFqpCKrbLaqr5nCpr=4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement of
everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work

Hieu Hoang
http://moses-smt.org/


On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Moses Dev,
>
> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer works
> well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to the code
> that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>
> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues.
> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>
> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible
> with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from
> being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft
> license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>
> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT
> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can
> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of our
> models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is in
> LGPL).
>
> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with
> LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to have
> dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might have to
> check with some proper legal personnel though.
>
> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the code
> under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for derivatiive
> work?
>
> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses
> code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove the
> synergy between various OSS.
>
> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 00:13:22 +0800
From: liling tan <alvations@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
To: Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com>
Cc: moses-support <moses-support@mit.edu>
Message-ID:
<CAKzPaJLYbFzd24q1=QaCzPBBSLBJ--sav1TdSL1WwK62fuv+Fw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I understand.

Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with
respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an
MIT/Apache tool?

Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having mutual
agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of LGPL work
until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's safe to back
off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code.

Regards,
Liling

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com> wrote:

> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement of
> everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work
>
> Hieu Hoang
> http://moses-smt.org/
>
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>
>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer
>> works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to
>> the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>>
>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues.
>> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>>
>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible
>> with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from
>> being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft
>> license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>>
>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT
>> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can
>> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
>> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of our
>> models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is in
>> LGPL).
>>
>> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with
>> LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to have
>> dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might have to
>> check with some proper legal personnel though.
>>
>> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the code
>> under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for derivatiive
>> work?
>>
>> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses
>> code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove the
>> synergy between various OSS.
>>
>> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moses-support mailing list
>> Moses-support@mit.edu
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>>
>>
>
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:17:50 +0100
From: Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
To: liling tan <alvations@gmail.com>
Cc: moses-support <moses-support@mit.edu>
Message-ID:
<CAEKMkbgXmqszOhgTrtehoNF6obJsrnP0xAQ0DROba668orn8pw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's
permission, not just mine. So no

Hieu Hoang
http://moses-smt.org/


On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com> wrote:

> I understand.
>
> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with
> respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an
> MIT/Apache tool?
>
> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having mutual
> agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of LGPL work
> until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's safe to back
> off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code.
>
> Regards,
> Liling
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement of
>> everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work
>>
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>
>>
>> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>>
>>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer
>>> works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to
>>> the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>>>
>>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues.
>>> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>>>
>>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible
>>> with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from
>>> being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft
>>> license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>>>
>>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT
>>> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can
>>> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
>>> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of our
>>> models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is in
>>> LGPL).
>>>
>>> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with
>>> LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to have
>>> dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might have to
>>> check with some proper legal personnel though.
>>>
>>> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the code
>>> under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for derivatiive
>>> work?
>>>
>>> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses
>>> code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove the
>>> synergy between various OSS.
>>>
>>> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moses-support mailing list
>>> Moses-support@mit.edu
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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End of Moses-support Digest, Vol 138, Issue 5
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