Moses-support Digest, Vol 138, Issue 7

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses (Kenneth Heafield)
2. Re: Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses (liling tan)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:01:48 +0100
From: Kenneth Heafield <moses@kheafield.com>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
To: moses-support@mit.edu
Message-ID: <78f87e11-6f79-d374-28c7-1f46ac85f85b@kheafield.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Looks like 19 people when the nonbreaking_prefixes is included and
multiple e-mail addresses for the same person are collapsed.

git log tokenizer.perl ../share/nonbreaking_prefixes/* |grep Author |sort -u

Some of whom have invalid e-mail addresses, but can probably be tracked
down.

Kenneth

On 04/10/2018 05:39 PM, Matt Post wrote:
> Liling?Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are
> in the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?
>
> matt (from my phone)
>
> Le 10 avr. 2018 ? 18:19, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com
> <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> a ?crit?:
>
>> Got it.?
>>
>> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer
>> function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in
>> mosesdecoder/scripts/tokenizer?
>>
>> Thank you for the clarification!
>> Liling
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com
>> <mailto:hieuhoang@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need
>> everyone's permission, not just mine. So no
>>
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>
>>
>> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com
>> <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I understand.?
>>
>> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from
>> Moses with respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other
>> scripts under an MIT/Apache tool??
>>
>> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth,
>> having mutual agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still
>> keep any port of LGPL work until someone starts to enforce
>> legal actions and I think it's safe to back off to taking down
>> these functionalities in the Apache/MIT code.?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang
>> <hieuhoang@gmail.com <mailto:hieuhoang@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without
>> the agreement of everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too
>> much work
>>
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>
>>
>> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com
>> <mailto:alvations@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>
>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses.
>> The tokenizer works well in Python and create a good
>> synergy to bridge Python users to the code that Moses
>> developers have spent years to hone.?
>>
>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing
>> issues. https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>> <https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000>?
>>
>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and
>> is incompatible with Apache or MIT license. I
>> understand that LGPL keeps derivative from being
>> proprietary but it's a little less permissive than
>> non-copyleft license like Apache and MIT licenses.?
>>
>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect
>> Marian which is MIT license and also incompatible with
>> LGPL so although technically users can chain the code
>> from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
>> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do
>> know that none of our models built with Marian would
>> work without the Moses tokenizer which is in LGPL).?
>>
>> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses
>> repository with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm
>> not sure whether it's allowed to have dual licenses
>> with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might
>> have to check with some proper legal personnel though.
>>
>> If dual license is not possible would it be possible
>> relicense the code under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That
>> way it's more permissive for derivatiive work?
>>
>> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the
>> Python port of Moses code entirely from Apache license
>> repository but I think that'll remove the synergy
>> between various OSS.?
>>
>> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Liling
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moses-support mailing list
>> Moses-support@mit.edu <mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>> <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moses-support mailing list
>> Moses-support@mit.edu <mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 01:26:09 +0800
From: liling tan <alvations@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] Dual Licensing or relicensing Moses
To: Matt Post <post@cs.jhu.edu>
Cc: moses-support <moses-support@mit.edu>
Message-ID:
<CAKzPaJLmUVoSso7CoBoN_JFp5SQ8rdqKJitOc-mVtUh96fcJ7w@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

@Matt I'm not sure whether that'll work.


For tokenizer, that'll include:


- [image: @phikoehn] phikoehn <https://github.com/phikoehn>
- [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang <https://github.com/hieuhoang>
- [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow <https://github.com/bhaddow>
- [image: @jimregan] jimregan <https://github.com/jimregan>
- [image: @kpu] kpu <https://github.com/kpu>
- [image: @ugermann] ugermann <https://github.com/ugermann>
- [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams <https://github.com/pjwilliams>
- [image: @jgwinnup] jgwinnup <https://github.com/jgwinnup>
- [image: @mhuck] mhuck <https://github.com/mhuck>
- [image: @tofula] tofula <https://github.com/tofula>
- [image: @a455bcd9] a455bcd9 <https://github.com/a455bcd9>


And these for the detokenizer:

-
[image: @phikoehn] phikoehn <https://github.com/phikoehn>
- [image: @flammie] flammie <https://github.com/flammie>
- [image: @hieuhoang] hieuhoang <https://github.com/hieuhoang>
- [image: @pjwilliams] pjwilliams <https://github.com/pjwilliams>
- [image: @bhaddow] bhaddow <https://github.com/bhaddow>
- [image: @alvations] alvations <https://github.com/alvations>

Not sure if everyone agrees though.

Regards,
Liling

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:39 AM, Matt Post <post@cs.jhu.edu> wrote:

> Liling?Would it work to get the permission of just those people who are in
> the commit log of the specific scripts you want to port?
>
> matt (from my phone)
>
> Le 10 avr. 2018 ? 18:19, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com> a ?crit :
>
> Got it.
>
> So I think we'll just remove the MosesTokenizer and MosesDetokenizer
> function from NLTK and maybe create a PR to put it in mosesdecoder/scripts/
> tokenizer
>
> Thank you for the clarification!
> Liling
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Still the same problem - everyone owns Moses so you need everyone's
>> permission, not just mine. So no
>>
>> Hieu Hoang
>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>
>>
>> On 10 April 2018 at 17:13, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I understand.
>>>
>>> Could we have permission that it's okay to derive work from Moses with
>>> respect to the (de-)tokenizer and possibly other scripts under an
>>> MIT/Apache tool?
>>>
>>> Legally it's a restriction but I think for what's it worth, having
>>> mutual agreement between the OSS is sufficient to still keep any port of
>>> LGPL work until someone starts to enforce legal actions and I think it's
>>> safe to back off to taking down these functionalities in the Apache/MIT
>>> code.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Liling
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Hieu Hoang <hieuhoang@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> we can't change the license, or dual license it, without the agreement
>>>> of everyone who's contributed to Moses. Too much work
>>>>
>>>> Hieu Hoang
>>>> http://moses-smt.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10 April 2018 at 15:47, liling tan <alvations@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Moses Dev,
>>>>>
>>>>> NLTK has a Python port of the word tokenizer in Moses. The tokenizer
>>>>> works well in Python and create a good synergy to bridge Python users to
>>>>> the code that Moses developers have spent years to hone.
>>>>>
>>>>> But it seemed to have hit a wall with some licensing issues.
>>>>> https://github.com/nltk/nltk/issues/2000
>>>>>
>>>>> General port of LGPL code is considered derivative and is incompatible
>>>>> with Apache or MIT license. I understand that LGPL keeps derivative from
>>>>> being proprietary but it's a little less permissive than non-copyleft
>>>>> license like Apache and MIT licenses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that this licensing issue might also affect Marian which is MIT
>>>>> license and also incompatible with LGPL so although technically users can
>>>>> chain the code from different libraries, but Marian couldn't have any
>>>>> dependencies on the Moses components. (But we know do know that none of our
>>>>> models built with Marian would work without the Moses tokenizer which is in
>>>>> LGPL).
>>>>>
>>>>> Would there be a possibility to dual license the Moses repository with
>>>>> LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license. I'm not sure whether it's allowed to have
>>>>> dual licenses with LGPL and Apache/BSD/MIT license though. Might have to
>>>>> check with some proper legal personnel though.
>>>>>
>>>>> If dual license is not possible would it be possible relicense the
>>>>> code under BSD/Apache/MIT license? That way it's more permissive for
>>>>> derivatiive work?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the last scenario is for NLTK to drop the Python port of Moses
>>>>> code entirely from Apache license repository but I think that'll remove the
>>>>> synergy between various OSS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope to hear from Moses devs soon!
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Liling
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moses-support mailing list
>>>>> Moses-support@mit.edu
>>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
>
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