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Today's Topics:
1. Re: gappy phrases (Matthias Huck)
2. Re: gappy phrases (Read, James C)
3. Re: gappy phrases (Matthias Huck)
4. Re: gappy phrases (Read, James C)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 13:15:16 +0000
From: Matthias Huck <mhuck@inf.ed.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
To: moses-support@mit.edu
Message-ID: <1383657316.20373.99.camel@portedgar>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi James,
the Phrasal toolkit is freely available as well [http://nlp.stanford.edu/phrasal/],
so why don't you consider extracting discontinuous phrases using Stanford's original implementation?
Cheers,
Matthias
On Tue, 2013-11-05 at 07:29 +0000, Read, James C wrote:
> Interesting.
>
> This isn't going to be an issue for the kind of experiments I will be
> running, though. I won't be using a language model or a reordering
> model or a beam search during decoding (I know, not much of Moses
> left). My main usage of 'Moses' at the moment is training translation
> models so I can run experiments with 'units of translation' in
> isolation from other variables in the system (language model,
> reordering model, beam search). I would really like to be able to run
> some experiments also with discontinuous phrases both source side and
> target side.
>
> Any idea what kind of changes I would need to make to the training
> process to be able to learn these kind of transformations? I suppose
> I'm also going to need to modify the operation of the translation
> model to get these working as well.
>
> thanks,
> James
>
> ________________________________
> From: moses-support-bounces@mit.edu [moses-support-bounces@mit.edu] on behalf of Daniel Cer [daniel.cer@gmail.com]
> Sent: 04 November 2013 19:43
> To: Kenneth Heafield
> Cc: moses-support@mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Ken and I just spoke about this.
>
> Here's a quick synopsis of our semi-recent experience at Stanford with discontinuous/gappy phrases:
>
> * Source side gaps are effectively free and don't really degrade decoding time.
> * Target side gaps are fine for smaller beam sizes (e.g., < 200).
> * When using large beams, our current implementation slows down dramatically. For example, with a stack size of 500, I think it was sometimes taking over an hour to translate some sentences.
>
> While discontinuous phrases can moderately increase the BLEU score, but we get a bigger increase by just using very large beam sizes.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Kenneth Heafield <moses@kheafield.com<mailto:moses@kheafield.com>> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'll throw in the anecdote that gappy phrases are currently not in use
> at Stanford. My predecessor told me that it took a lot longer and only
> improved BLEU slightly on Chinese-English. But it's also possible that
> something didn't get passed down correctly from Michel to my predecessor
> to me. . .
>
> Kenneth
>
> On 11/03/13 14:18, Read, James C wrote:
> > My understanding is that they used a similar approach as the grammar extraction to extract the gappy phrases. Would it be a massive undertaking to get Moses to support this?
> >
> > James
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Barry Haddow [bhaddow@staffmail.ed.ac.uk<mailto:bhaddow@staffmail.ed.ac.uk>]
> > Sent: 30 October 2013 09:26
> > To: Read, James C
> > Cc: moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support@mit.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
> >
> > No, but it does support hiero and syntax models.
> >
> > On 29/10/13 22:23, Read, James C wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> does anybody know if Moses supports gappy phrases http://www-nlp.stanford.edu/pubs/naacl10-discontinuous_phrases.pdf
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Moses-support mailing list
> >> Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> > Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Moses-support mailing list
> > Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 13:33:56 +0000
From: "Read, James C" <jcread@essex.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
To: Matthias Huck <mhuck@inf.ed.ac.uk>, "moses-support@mit.edu"
<moses-support@mit.edu>
Message-ID:
<F00840E41983C645928E21E3C35F4EB1012CF3523C@mbx1-node2.essex.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I can't get past installation. I posted on the mailing list. But nobody answered.
________________________________________
From: moses-support-bounces@mit.edu [moses-support-bounces@mit.edu] on behalf of Matthias Huck [mhuck@inf.ed.ac.uk]
Sent: 05 November 2013 13:15
To: moses-support@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
Hi James,
the Phrasal toolkit is freely available as well [http://nlp.stanford.edu/phrasal/],
so why don't you consider extracting discontinuous phrases using Stanford's original implementation?
Cheers,
Matthias
On Tue, 2013-11-05 at 07:29 +0000, Read, James C wrote:
> Interesting.
>
> This isn't going to be an issue for the kind of experiments I will be
> running, though. I won't be using a language model or a reordering
> model or a beam search during decoding (I know, not much of Moses
> left). My main usage of 'Moses' at the moment is training translation
> models so I can run experiments with 'units of translation' in
> isolation from other variables in the system (language model,
> reordering model, beam search). I would really like to be able to run
> some experiments also with discontinuous phrases both source side and
> target side.
>
> Any idea what kind of changes I would need to make to the training
> process to be able to learn these kind of transformations? I suppose
> I'm also going to need to modify the operation of the translation
> model to get these working as well.
>
> thanks,
> James
>
> ________________________________
> From: moses-support-bounces@mit.edu [moses-support-bounces@mit.edu] on behalf of Daniel Cer [daniel.cer@gmail.com]
> Sent: 04 November 2013 19:43
> To: Kenneth Heafield
> Cc: moses-support@mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Ken and I just spoke about this.
>
> Here's a quick synopsis of our semi-recent experience at Stanford with discontinuous/gappy phrases:
>
> * Source side gaps are effectively free and don't really degrade decoding time.
> * Target side gaps are fine for smaller beam sizes (e.g., < 200).
> * When using large beams, our current implementation slows down dramatically. For example, with a stack size of 500, I think it was sometimes taking over an hour to translate some sentences.
>
> While discontinuous phrases can moderately increase the BLEU score, but we get a bigger increase by just using very large beam sizes.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Kenneth Heafield <moses@kheafield.com<mailto:moses@kheafield.com>> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'll throw in the anecdote that gappy phrases are currently not in use
> at Stanford. My predecessor told me that it took a lot longer and only
> improved BLEU slightly on Chinese-English. But it's also possible that
> something didn't get passed down correctly from Michel to my predecessor
> to me. . .
>
> Kenneth
>
> On 11/03/13 14:18, Read, James C wrote:
> > My understanding is that they used a similar approach as the grammar extraction to extract the gappy phrases. Would it be a massive undertaking to get Moses to support this?
> >
> > James
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Barry Haddow [bhaddow@staffmail.ed.ac.uk<mailto:bhaddow@staffmail.ed.ac.uk>]
> > Sent: 30 October 2013 09:26
> > To: Read, James C
> > Cc: moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support@mit.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
> >
> > No, but it does support hiero and syntax models.
> >
> > On 29/10/13 22:23, Read, James C wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> does anybody know if Moses supports gappy phrases http://www-nlp.stanford.edu/pubs/naacl10-discontinuous_phrases.pdf
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Moses-support mailing list
> >> Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> > Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Moses-support mailing list
> > Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
_______________________________________________
Moses-support mailing list
Moses-support@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 13:41:49 +0000
From: Matthias Huck <mhuck@inf.ed.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
To: moses-support@mit.edu
Message-ID: <1383658909.20373.102.camel@portedgar>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Their Quick Start Guide is helpful:
http://www-nlp.stanford.edu/wiki/Software/Phrasal
On Tue, 2013-11-05 at 13:33 +0000, Read, James C wrote:
> I can't get past installation. I posted on the mailing list. But nobody answered.
> ________________________________________
> From: moses-support-bounces@mit.edu [moses-support-bounces@mit.edu] on behalf of Matthias Huck [mhuck@inf.ed.ac.uk]
> Sent: 05 November 2013 13:15
> To: moses-support@mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
>
> Hi James,
>
> the Phrasal toolkit is freely available as well [http://nlp.stanford.edu/phrasal/],
> so why don't you consider extracting discontinuous phrases using Stanford's original implementation?
>
> Cheers,
> Matthias
--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 13:43:52 +0000
From: "Read, James C" <jcread@essex.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
To: Hieu Hoang <Hieu.Hoang@ed.ac.uk>
Cc: "moses-support@mit.edu" <moses-support@mit.edu>, Daniel Cer
<daniel.cer@gmail.com>
Message-ID:
<F00840E41983C645928E21E3C35F4EB1012CF3524D@mbx1-node2.essex.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
My basic plan for experimentation was to use a translation model only. Of course, with the current implementation (as I understand it) many permutations generated by the translation model alone will have the same phrases in a different order and thus have the same probability. I was thinking about perhaps modifying the translation model such that it generates sentences from phrases that overlap on both the source side and target side and scoring in a way that gives a higher rank to translations generated with greater degrees of overlap.
Do you think it would be easier to write the new translation model from scratch or adapt the existing one?
James
________________________________
From: hieuhoang@gmail.com [hieuhoang@gmail.com] on behalf of Hieu Hoang [Hieu.Hoang@ed.ac.uk]
Sent: 05 November 2013 12:12
To: Read, James C
Cc: Daniel Cer; Kenneth Heafield; moses-support@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
If you're gonna throw most of Moses away, you may consider using and extending the basic decoder I've just added to github
https://github.com/moses-smt/mosesdecoder/tree/master/contrib/basic-decoder
Or write your own. You're welcome to add it to moses too
On 5 November 2013 07:29, Read, James C <jcread@essex.ac.uk<mailto:jcread@essex.ac.uk>> wrote:
Interesting.
This isn't going to be an issue for the kind of experiments I will be running, though. I won't be using a language model or a reordering model or a beam search during decoding (I know, not much of Moses left). My main usage of 'Moses' at the moment is training translation models so I can run experiments with 'units of translation' in isolation from other variables in the system (language model, reordering model, beam search). I would really like to be able to run some experiments also with discontinuous phrases both source side and target side.
Any idea what kind of changes I would need to make to the training process to be able to learn these kind of transformations? I suppose I'm also going to need to modify the operation of the translation model to get these working as well.
thanks,
James
________________________________
From: moses-support-bounces@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support-bounces@mit.edu> [moses-support-bounces@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support-bounces@mit.edu>] on behalf of Daniel Cer [daniel.cer@gmail.com<mailto:daniel.cer@gmail.com>]
Sent: 04 November 2013 19:43
To: Kenneth Heafield
Cc: moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
Hi everyone,
Ken and I just spoke about this.
Here's a quick synopsis of our semi-recent experience at Stanford with discontinuous/gappy phrases:
* Source side gaps are effectively free and don't really degrade decoding time.
* Target side gaps are fine for smaller beam sizes (e.g., < 200).
* When using large beams, our current implementation slows down dramatically. For example, with a stack size of 500, I think it was sometimes taking over an hour to translate some sentences.
While discontinuous phrases can moderately increase the BLEU score, but we get a bigger increase by just using very large beam sizes.
Dan
On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Kenneth Heafield <moses@kheafield.com<mailto:moses@kheafield.com><mailto:moses@kheafield.com<mailto:moses@kheafield.com>>> wrote:
Hi,
I'll throw in the anecdote that gappy phrases are currently not in use
at Stanford. My predecessor told me that it took a lot longer and only
improved BLEU slightly on Chinese-English. But it's also possible that
something didn't get passed down correctly from Michel to my predecessor
to me. . .
Kenneth
On 11/03/13 14:18, Read, James C wrote:
> My understanding is that they used a similar approach as the grammar extraction to extract the gappy phrases. Would it be a massive undertaking to get Moses to support this?
>
> James
> ________________________________________
> From: Barry Haddow [bhaddow@staffmail.ed.ac.uk<mailto:bhaddow@staffmail.ed.ac.uk><mailto:bhaddow@staffmail.ed.ac.uk<mailto:bhaddow@staffmail.ed.ac.uk>>]
> Sent: 30 October 2013 09:26
> To: Read, James C
> Cc: moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support@mit.edu><mailto:moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:moses-support@mit.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Moses-support] gappy phrases
>
> No, but it does support hiero and syntax models.
>
> On 29/10/13 22:23, Read, James C wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> does anybody know if Moses supports gappy phrases http://www-nlp.stanford.edu/pubs/naacl10-discontinuous_phrases.pdf
>>
>> James
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moses-support mailing list
>> Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu><mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>>
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>>
>
>
> --
> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moses-support mailing list
> Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu><mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>>
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
>
_______________________________________________
Moses-support mailing list
Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu><mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>>
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
_______________________________________________
Moses-support mailing list
Moses-support@mit.edu<mailto:Moses-support@mit.edu>
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/moses-support
--
Hieu Hoang
Research Associate
University of Edinburgh
http://www.hoang.co.uk/hieu
------------------------------
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End of Moses-support Digest, Vol 85, Issue 9
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